Episode 7: Tony Cassin-Scott

EPISODE 7: Tony Cassin-Scott – Practicus Digital Transformation Podcast

This week we focus on the importance of Data in digital transformation with the help of Tony Cassin-Scott. Tony has over 20 years experience in senior leadership roles spearheading both digital and data transformations to optimise business performance. His background covers several major industries, including Media and Insurance. 

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00:00:18 James Rowson

Today we are thrilled to be joined by Tony. Tony has over 20 years experience in senior leadership roles spearheading digital and data transformations and optimizing business performance. Welcome Tony.

00:00:31 Tony Cassin-Scott

Hello James and thank you for inviting me to your podcast.

00:00:34 James Rowson

First question Tony in keeping with tradition, what does digital mean to you.

00:00:39 Tony Cassin-Scott

I knew it was coming because I’d listened to the previous podcast, so I did my Homework, but for me, I look at this through two lenses. It’s consumers and producers, and I think from the looking through the consumer lens as well as what are the outputs that consumers expect. I think in the modern. Environment they expect a joined up seamless user experience end to end from the producer side.

The other side of the digital coins that were I think they’re looking at straight through process. Thing where they improve their efficiencies, their effectiveness, and ultimately, and I think this is a bit of a utopia for some, is get to sort of like dynamic realization of actionable insights through the interactions which they they record from the users themselves. So I think it’s a double-sided coin. In summary, producers and consumers.

00:01:35 Dave Kemble

You’ve got quite an interesting background and a lot of experience in the world of digital and data. But what got you into digital in the first place.

00:02:01 Tony Cassin-Scott

Uhm, it started actually when I was at the FT back in the I joined in 89 that shows how old I am now.

00:02:07 Tony Cassin-Scott

But the one of the tasks I took in the.

00:02:09 Tony Cassin-Scott

Mid 90S was to.

00:02:11 Tony Cassin-Scott

Work with the advertisement at with the advertising department where they sold space in the attic. Just like you know. Then scale about 70% of the revenue.

00:02:20 Tony Cassin-Scott

For the FT was from adverts, now the FT Es are quite a complex product.

00:02:25 Tony Cassin-Scott

And it’s not just what.

00:02:26 Tony Cassin-Scott

You see, in the UK it’s.

00:02:27 Tony Cassin-Scott

Also sold in the US.

00:02:29 Tony Cassin-Scott

And Europe, so there are four main or least.

00:02:32 Tony Cassin-Scott

There were then four main regions, and there were variations in both editorial content, which I’ll get to later, but also specifically in advertising.

00:02:40 Tony Cassin-Scott

As you can imagine, you don’t undersell UK products in Europe or Japan, and vice versa, and how it worked when only joined is essentially.

00:02:50 Tony Cassin-Scott

And it was a very male orientated company.

00:02:52 Tony Cassin-Scott

Lots of men were sharp.

00:02:53 Tony Cassin-Scott

Pencils and bigger raise.

00:02:55 Tony Cassin-Scott

Then they kind of marked up the pages on a on a giant A3 sheet or sorry, 8/2 sheets of paper and then as the advert request came in they had to rub them out and move them around and you can imagine is a highly labor intensive.

00:03:09 Tony Cassin-Scott

And given that the majority of their revenue was through.

00:03:11 Tony Cassin-Scott

That process, it was a laborious.

00:03:14 Tony Cassin-Scott

Task and it hadn’t been hadn’t changed.

00:03:16 Tony Cassin-Scott

In decades.

00:03:17 Tony Cassin-Scott

So I was tasked with working with them just like how can we make this better so it it wasn’t called digital transformation.

00:03:24 Tony Cassin-Scott

Then it was called electronic AD booking system and we actually we scoured the earth and we ended up in Finland and we we found we threaten.

00:03:35 Tony Cassin-Scott

New to be precise.

00:03:36 Tony Cassin-Scott

But we and we found a system that would allow us to place adverts on the same pages but with different ads in different zones.

00:03:45 Tony Cassin-Scott

So that was a breakthrough.

00:03:47 Tony Cassin-Scott

’cause then we then coupled that with another system that allowed the.

00:03:51 Tony Cassin-Scott

Uhm, the clients to say.

00:03:54 Tony Cassin-Scott

Both sorry to self.

00:03:56 Tony Cassin-Scott

I’ll start again to have the clients to find bits of space that they’d like to book directly without having to go through.

00:04:03 Tony Cassin-Scott

Anybody with all these?

00:04:05 Tony Cassin-Scott

Were lower price set as well?

00:04:07 Tony Cassin-Scott

So the whole idea is that we we we created this consumer angle that well there wasn’t there before before it was like somebody on the phone.

00:04:13 Tony Cassin-Scott

So we opened up the market.

00:04:15 Tony Cassin-Scott

So this is in mid 90s.

00:04:17 Tony Cassin-Scott

This was highly revolutionary at the time.

00:04:19 Tony Cassin-Scott

It wasn’t called digital transformation, but you know, using today’s speech, that’s exactly what it was.

00:04:25 Dave Kemble

And so in that example, had that been a request from the clients that you were working with that they wished that they had some form of platform or or was this something that you thought?

00:04:37 Dave Kemble

Actually, that’s probably going to be useful for them.

00:04:40 Dave Kemble

So what drove it?

00:04:41 Dave Kemble

I guess is the question.

00:04:42 Tony Cassin-Scott

What drove it was?

00:04:44 Tony Cassin-Scott

Out well there.

00:04:44 Tony Cassin-Scott

Are several drivers, one is reducing costs, which is an obvious one, but actually that wasn’t the major driver.

00:04:49 Tony Cassin-Scott

The major driver was to improve the flexibility of the product on offer to the clients.

00:04:56 Tony Cassin-Scott

And the timeliness by which they could place those ads.

00:04:59 Tony Cassin-Scott

It had already been tried, tested, and trialed with lineage ads like small small ads.

00:05:06 Tony Cassin-Scott

But the FD doesn’t carry that, it just carries full page or quarter page ads to very different play.

00:05:11 Tony Cassin-Scott

So when we spoke to the client about it, they loved it.

00:05:14 Tony Cassin-Scott

There’s mainly the media.

00:05:16 Tony Cassin-Scott

Buying agencies who are the main customers, so for them it just made their life easy as well.

00:05:21 Tony Cassin-Scott

So all of a sudden there are efficiencies to be had on both sides of the transaction.

00:05:26

In that.

00:05:27 Dave Kemble

Interesting, so were you.

00:05:28 Dave Kemble

The front runners with this then were you the first to do this?

00:05:31 Tony Cassin-Scott

With that size of AD, yes, but not with lineage ads because the light jazz had been doing that for probably about the five years prior to that.

00:05:40 Tony Cassin-Scott

But it was the IT.

00:05:41 Tony Cassin-Scott

Was that that gave us the idea and the opportunity to do it with with full page ads.

00:05:47 James Rowson

It’s interesting that even you know upwards of 25 years ago, you know cost reduction and customer engagement and customer experience.

00:05:54 James Rowson

You know they’re still up there being the most important drivers for any digital transformation, and it shows that.

00:05:59 James Rowson

And then.

00:06:00 James Rowson

The same things applied again as you said all be it under a different banner, a different headline.

00:06:04 Tony Cassin-Scott

Well, yeah, I mean there’s nothing new under the sun is there?

00:06:07 Tony Cassin-Scott

This is just it’s just a new label for for an old function.

00:06:10 Tony Cassin-Scott

I mean, the other things that I did when I was there, just.

00:06:12 Tony Cassin-Scott

Just to finish the story off.

00:06:13 Tony Cassin-Scott

I we digitized investors chronicle as well.

00:06:18 Tony Cassin-Scott

So we took that from a paper product to an online product.

00:06:21 Tony Cassin-Scott

Uh, and we put in place an online subscription system. A similar ad booking system, so we learned the lessons from the ad booking there and then we did the same with ft.com.

00:06:30 Tony Cassin-Scott

Now, in truth we were a bit slow to the party for betty.com ’cause Wall Street.

00:06:34 Tony Cassin-Scott

Journal was there.

00:06:34 Tony Cassin-Scott

Two years before, but that, again was a digitized journey for both the readership, the advertisers.

00:06:42 Tony Cassin-Scott

And of course, the journalists which had to change their ways at work.

00:06:45 Tony Cassin-Scott

OK, I mean these things weren’t done overnight.

00:06:48 Tony Cassin-Scott

They took years to do.

00:06:49 Tony Cassin-Scott

I mean today they would.

00:06:51 Tony Cassin-Scott

You could do it in record time, but then it was quite novel avant garde and not without internal politics that got in the way.

00:07:00 Tony Cassin-Scott

As you can imagine.

00:07:02 Dave Kemble

Did it drive a desire for technology to then become an enabler across the business?

00:07:07 Dave Kemble

Or was it still was technology still?

00:07:09 Dave Kemble

I’d as a or OK don’t we’ve we’ve not done it before.

00:07:13 Dave Kemble

This is always the way we’ve done things.

00:07:16 Tony Cassin-Scott

I’ll be blunt.

00:07:17 Tony Cassin-Scott

It was seen as the art department problem.

00:07:20 Tony Cassin-Scott

Uh, they it was.

00:07:20 Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah.

00:07:22 Tony Cassin-Scott

Yeah, it just, you know, just make it happen.

00:07:23 Tony Cassin-Scott

We don’t need to know about it.

00:07:25 Tony Cassin-Scott

’cause we’re you know, we’re we’re creatives.

00:07:27 Tony Cassin-Scott

Here just just just give us a.

00:07:28 Tony Cassin-Scott

System so it was it I would say what’s the difference between then and now?

00:07:33 Tony Cassin-Scott

There’s a lot more engagement from the business end than there was before.

00:07:38 Tony Cassin-Scott

It could still be better in my experience.

00:07:40 Tony Cassin-Scott

But there was definitely very much a sort of them, and us just just, you know, just just just deliver it without actually the thoughts about what it actually means, because the the the political bands which I mentioned earlier about ways of working people have to change their ways of working so that there are some.

00:07:53 Tony Cassin-Scott

I mean, I won’t go into the details here, but there are.

00:07:55 Tony Cassin-Scott

Some things that people had.

00:07:56 Tony Cassin-Scott

To do which they didn’t do before as journalists.

00:08:00 Tony Cassin-Scott

It’s more than just writing a story and editing it.

00:08:03 Tony Cassin-Scott

They had to get familiar with the technology in order to exploit it as well.

00:08:08 James Rowson

It’s a really.

00:08:09 James Rowson

Good point.

00:08:09 Tony Cassin-Scott

So I’ll

00:08:10 James Rowson

On that theme actually.

00:08:12 Tony Cassin-Scott

Most guess I’ll.

00:08:13 Tony Cassin-Scott

Give an example the there’s something which is a common use now, which is the single copy principle for publisher.

00:08:19 Tony Cassin-Scott

So what happens is you produce a piece of copy once and you use it in many formats, so you use on print.

00:08:25 Tony Cassin-Scott

You can use it online on your phone at.

00:08:27 Tony Cassin-Scott

Petra we we did that in about 2005 2006 for the newspaper but we took at stage further because it’s a regional paper, geographically regional.

00:08:37 Tony Cassin-Scott

We also built some intelligence into.

00:08:40 Tony Cassin-Scott

These stories into the.

00:08:41 Tony Cassin-Scott

Text so where we quoted for the UK X billion pounds for the international edition.

00:08:47 Tony Cassin-Scott

Would be wide billion dollars U.S. dollars, so there’d be automatic conversions. Or well, you would prefer the domestic addition to the Prime Minister.

00:08:56 Tony Cassin-Scott

The international one would be the British Prime Minister, so although they’re subtle, we built in that intelligence into the system.

00:09:04 Tony Cassin-Scott

So, but the journalists had to control the levers on that, because obviously they knew where the stories were going to go.

00:09:09 Tony Cassin-Scott

It’s not all of.

00:09:09 Tony Cassin-Scott

Them are international, so there was a different.

00:09:11 Tony Cassin-Scott

Level of complexity that we required the users to be.

00:09:15 Tony Cassin-Scott

Able to exploit the technology.

00:09:18 James Rowson

Very interesting on on on that theme actually Tony, you know we.

00:09:22 James Rowson

We’ve touched on the fact that you were delivering what would now be called digital transformations a couple of decades ago.

00:09:27 James Rowson

Even now and and throughout your career, you’ve worked in a number of different sectors.

00:09:32 James Rowson

As I alluded to earlier on.

00:09:34 Speaker 1

Right?

00:09:34 James Rowson

Have you noticed any kind of patterns or or changes in in in the shift of people perception of what we now call digital transformation?

00:09:44 Tony Cassin-Scott

So uhm, it is depending on who you.

00:09:46 Tony Cassin-Scott

Speak with the course and it is industry.

00:09:48 Tony Cassin-Scott

Specific I would.

00:09:49 Tony Cassin-Scott

Say though, it’s now got a higher board level interest focused than it had before.

00:09:56 Tony Cassin-Scott

I think it’s shifted from the domain of solely being with the CIO, so now being with the CEO.

00:10:03 Tony Cassin-Scott

And with the CEO taking a greater interest in terms of sponsorship perspective, so it’s now seen as a business.

00:10:10 Tony Cassin-Scott

I would say it’s it’s less.

00:10:12 Tony Cassin-Scott

About digital transformation.

00:10:13 Tony Cassin-Scott

More about business transformation.

00:10:15 Tony Cassin-Scott

I think digital transformation is the enabler for business transformation.

00:10:19 Tony Cassin-Scott

Hence, the realization that this isn’t just an ITA.

00:10:22 Tony Cassin-Scott

Issue I mean in.

00:10:23 Tony Cassin-Scott

Truth it never was, but it was as over time.

00:10:26 Tony Cassin-Scott

People have matured, they’ve got older.

00:10:28 Tony Cassin-Scott

They were young when discord.

00:10:30 Tony Cassin-Scott

When you know the the the workflow changes were going in and of.

00:10:32 Tony Cassin-Scott

Course they’ve grown up with.

00:10:33 Tony Cassin-Scott

That now the other differences I would say is there are differences between the different industries.

00:10:40 Tony Cassin-Scott

Some of them have more digital savvy.

00:10:42 Tony Cassin-Scott

They than others.

00:10:43 Tony Cassin-Scott

So for example insurance I would say is pretty slow off the mark compared to say you.

00:10:51 Tony Cassin-Scott

So newspapers were were slow off the mark but once they got there.

00:10:54 Tony Cassin-Scott

They kind of led the pack quite a lot, telling telcos will that.

00:10:58 Tony Cassin-Scott

Obviously they’re client quicker than anyone else because they had to be, UM, insurance companies were slow off the mark.

00:11:05 Tony Cassin-Scott

Health companies were slow off the mark, but there are good examples in the US with a, uh, where they leapfrogged everyone else. Kaiser Permanente is, it’s a good example, so Kaiser.

00:11:15 Tony Cassin-Scott

Permanente is solely a USA private health care insurer and care provider.

00:11:23 Tony Cassin-Scott

I went to see them, they’ve got.

00:11:25 Tony Cassin-Scott

3 lines of business.

00:11:26 Tony Cassin-Scott

One line of business is medical insurance.

00:11:29 Tony Cassin-Scott

Yeah, take the other line of business is clinical provisioning.

00:11:32 Tony Cassin-Scott

Yep, hospitals, clinics together.

00:11:34 Tony Cassin-Scott

The third one, which is represented in both their investment and their board, focuses in the use of technology.

00:11:43 Tony Cassin-Scott

Specifically in in digital platforms and the use of data, they spent literally billions on putting together a customer record that was universal across their entire.

00:11:54 Tony Cassin-Scott

Uh, enterprise or businesses through through 99 business units, which they put together.

00:12:00 Dave Kemble

Last thing.

00:12:02 Dave Kemble

I know, true speaking to some of my contacts over the last few weeks.

00:12:06 Dave Kemble

One of the biggest challenges that people seem to find at the moment is the is the lack of skill.

00:12:13 Dave Kemble

Deal it’s skills internally to be able to implement the changes that they want to be able to do the the the transformation in the digital transformation in your experience so far, what do you tend to find the the common challenges within that digital transformation?

00:12:30 Tony Cassin-Scott

Finding the hybrids hybrid people.

00:12:34 Tony Cassin-Scott

Which is in truth has always.

00:12:36 Tony Cassin-Scott

Been the case, I kind of naturally fell into.

00:12:38 Tony Cassin-Scott

That not not.

00:12:39 Tony Cassin-Scott

Through planning is to one of those hybrid type people.

00:12:42 Tony Cassin-Scott

Where I come?

00:12:43 Tony Cassin-Scott

I got the tech ’cause that’s where I started, but I actually understood the business value as well and I think.

00:12:49 Tony Cassin-Scott

It’s it’s there, although there are more people that we’re inclined that’s still quite hard to.

00:12:54 Tony Cassin-Scott

Get people who have enough knowledge of the technique.

00:12:56 Tony Cassin-Scott

J and enough knowledge of the commercial outcomes to be driven.

00:13:01 Tony Cassin-Scott

If you like all to be achieved, that that’s where The Hobbit is.

00:13:04 Tony Cassin-Scott

So you probably don’t need too many of me, but you do need a lot of people who who you can manage across that divide.

00:13:13 Dave Kemble

Yeah, that that that that can I.

00:13:16 Dave Kemble

I guess it’s like with the I know James and I’ve worked on ERP programs in the past and it’s that interpretation of being able to explain the tech to the commercial side and vice versa and.

00:13:27 Dave Kemble

And being that conduit, if you will.

00:13:29 Tony Cassin-Scott

What is that so? For example, at ft.com when when I monetized that in 2001, 2002?

00:13:35 Tony Cassin-Scott

I had a team of about 120 people that comprise the whole spectrum of the newspaper. It was editorial it.

00:13:43 Tony Cassin-Scott

Was marketing it was sales.

00:13:45 Tony Cassin-Scott

It was third party technology companies.

00:13:48 Tony Cassin-Scott

It was, you know, on site technicians as well it was that was the whole thing was suddenly you’ve got the whole product is in.

00:13:55 Tony Cassin-Scott

One space it’s not in, you know you haven’t got a van sending a going to a print press.

00:14:00 Tony Cassin-Scott

You haven’t got to worry about printers you haven’t got to worry about the journalists typing away.

00:14:05 Tony Cassin-Scott

All these things are now totally integrated, which is why you need to treat in a very holistic fashion.

00:14:09 Tony Cassin-Scott

And then they kind of not knowing at the time I ended up with that person because it kind of because I had experience in in bits of them and I could pull the jigsaw together.

00:14:18 Tony Cassin-Scott

So I think it’s those sort of people which actually probably are highly valuable at the moment in those spaces, and they do exist.

00:14:26 James Rowson

That’s good today.

00:14:29 Tony Cassin-Scott

Don’t see can’t find them, but they do believe me.

00:14:32 Dave Kemble

Sneaky you’re missing out on the people.

00:14:35 Dave Kemble

Yeah, that what you don’t need anymore is the people with the bowler hats and.

00:14:37 Dave Kemble

The pencil so hey, we got a big story see.

00:14:43 James Rowson

The UM?

00:14:44 James Rowson

We spoke about your digital experience Tony, the second half.

00:14:48 James Rowson

The more recent half of your career and today has been largely kind of data transformation focused, and it’s actually quite an interesting journey of how that happened.

00:14:58 James Rowson

Could you, could you talk to us about that in more detail?

00:15:00 Tony Cassin-Scott

Yep, Yep, there’s.

00:15:01 Tony Cassin-Scott

Another story coming along here, so only.

00:15:03 Tony Cassin-Scott

After after 20 odd years.

00:15:05 Tony Cassin-Scott

In the newspaper industry, I decided to do something completely different and I joined Bupa.

00:15:11 Tony Cassin-Scott

The problem of the insurance company.

00:15:15 Tony Cassin-Scott

As their IT director for corporate services, so that sounds a very grand title.

00:15:20 Tony Cassin-Scott

But basically I looked after HQ technology and some of the shared services across the organization to give you some idea of scale.

00:15:28 Tony Cassin-Scott

When I joined there were.

00:15:31 Tony Cassin-Scott

Ah, thinkers like 3065 thousand people across over 100 different locations. Uh, covering some like 30 countries and five regional. If you like enterprise areas. So it was a vast, vast empire that grown throughout.

00:15:53 Tony Cassin-Scott

Uhm, so I I had that role there for about 2 1/2 years and sort of looking at this stuff I.

00:15:58 Tony Cassin-Scott

Was thinking there’s not a lot of data.

00:16:00 Tony Cassin-Scott

We collect, but it’s.

00:16:01 Tony Cassin-Scott

All done individually in silos and these different business units.

00:16:05 Tony Cassin-Scott

And I I.

00:16:06 Tony Cassin-Scott

Made the comments.

00:16:07 Tony Cassin-Scott

It’s careful what you.

00:16:08 Tony Cassin-Scott

Wish for here I made the comment said no Donis we’ve got all.

00:16:10 Tony Cassin-Scott

This state I’m sure we could do more with it than we’re doing now.

00:16:13 Tony Cassin-Scott

So which the the person I reported to on the board said that’s a great idea.

00:16:18 Tony Cassin-Scott

Have a look at.

00:16:19

It as well.

00:16:20 Tony Cassin-Scott

Yeah, no it wasn’t.

00:16:21 Tony Cassin-Scott

It wasn’t me.

00:16:22 Tony Cassin-Scott

It was.

00:16:22 Tony Cassin-Scott

I was just stressing suffering.

00:16:23 Tony Cassin-Scott

But no, no.

00:16:24 Tony Cassin-Scott

You have a look at it it the the the proviso is though you have to give up your day job and focus on this.

00:16:30 Tony Cassin-Scott

Now we ought to do that ’cause we think it’s a good idea.

00:16:33 Dave Kemble

Learn ya it.

00:16:34 Tony Cassin-Scott

Will it’s like I’ve never looked back since?

00:16:37 Tony Cassin-Scott

Uh, because I?

00:16:38 Tony Cassin-Scott

I don’t.

00:16:38 Tony Cassin-Scott

I don’t have a full time job.

00:16:39 Tony Cassin-Scott

Anymore either, but anyway so.

00:16:42 Tony Cassin-Scott

But that’s by the bar.

00:16:44 Tony Cassin-Scott

So I I took on this mantle.

00:16:46 Tony Cassin-Scott

Now I have to say there was there was a steep learning experience.

00:16:49 Tony Cassin-Scott

Bear in mind I’ve been steeped in it.

00:16:51 Tony Cassin-Scott

As well as as you.

00:16:53 Tony Cassin-Scott

Know editorial works.

00:16:54 Tony Cassin-Scott

So this was all new to me and being vanity directories having that title which I quickly changed.

00:17:00 Tony Cassin-Scott

By the way, I was inundated bombarded by people trying to sell me tools.

00:17:06 Tony Cassin-Scott

You know, it’s like it’s it’s the gold rush, isn’t it?

00:17:08 Tony Cassin-Scott

People send you picks and shovels to go and dig that data.

00:17:12 Tony Cassin-Scott

And that’s exactly what happens.

00:17:13 Tony Cassin-Scott

Like every dime.

00:17:14 Tony Cassin-Scott

Basically, I had I had, but luckily I had a PA who could just filter out all the.

00:17:17 Tony Cassin-Scott

Calls and it made me change my my title as well.

00:17:21 Tony Cassin-Scott

I’ll go into Vyte and the director was just director data so that that just kept it.

00:17:26 Tony Cassin-Scott

Yeah, but of course didn’t quite stop all the calls, but nonetheless, I I looked at all this technology and there’s yeah, there’s some great stuff out there.

00:17:33 Tony Cassin-Scott

Then this was about 10 years ago.

00:17:35

And there’s.

00:17:36 Tony Cassin-Scott

Better stuff now, but after about three months of this I’m looking at the second trial.

00:17:41 Tony Cassin-Scott

I’m looking down the telescope at the wrong end.

00:17:44 Tony Cassin-Scott

’cause this is all this.

00:17:45 Tony Cassin-Scott

Technology we can do all these wonderful.

00:17:46 Tony Cassin-Scott

Things but like.

00:17:48 Tony Cassin-Scott

In service of what what?

00:17:49 Tony Cassin-Scott

We want to do with.

00:17:50 Tony Cassin-Scott

This stuff so I I then stopped looking at the technology and thought actually now come back to what I originally said, which is I’m sure we can do some good stuff with us with this data.

00:18:01 Tony Cassin-Scott

So I then abandon the technology and and then start looking right.

00:18:04 Tony Cassin-Scott

Well, OK, what do we do so the.

00:18:06 Tony Cassin-Scott

Next thing I did.

00:18:06 Tony Cassin-Scott

Is saying well I there’s only so far I can go so I.

00:18:10 Tony Cassin-Scott

Recruited 2 data scientists.

00:18:12 Tony Cassin-Scott

Well, internally, who had a healthcare background used to work the HS and the other one came from outside the industry from actually from Virgin.

00:18:23 Tony Cassin-Scott

For insights and and together as a team over a space for about a year, we identified about 140.

00:18:32 Tony Cassin-Scott

£1,000,000 worth of benefit to be had.

00:18:35 Tony Cassin-Scott

That we didn’t realize it because that wasn’t our job, but our job was basically to dig for gold and we did, and we found both revenue opportunities and cost saving opportunities across a whole spectrum of things.

00:18:47 Tony Cassin-Scott

So, for example, Bupa had a a large number of care homes.

00:18:51 Tony Cassin-Scott

So if you look at the costs of running care home, there are some Christians to be had there.

00:18:55 Tony Cassin-Scott

If you look at the clinical side, the cost of operations and how that compares to local Kasai in a chat with local National Health services, we could do those comparisons and see why we’re more expensive and were more expensive.

00:19:07 Tony Cassin-Scott

So with a lot of in depth.

00:19:09 Tony Cassin-Scott

Analysis of that.

00:19:10 Tony Cassin-Scott

So that that actually took me into the into the data space from the technology space and then kind of the bug bit and and when I was at Bupa the the last thing I did actually we created.

00:19:22 Tony Cassin-Scott

Although we never went to market with it, we created a health index of the UK’s top 1000 companies which we never published.

00:19:30 Tony Cassin-Scott

Not no quota here.

00:19:31 Tony Cassin-Scott

Either, but it’s really is, but it’s very interesting because what we did is we looked at the level of well being and related that to their financial performance.

00:19:44 Tony Cassin-Scott

And that’s an important story.

00:19:45 Tony Cassin-Scott

’cause that leads me to where I am today actually.

00:19:47 Tony Cassin-Scott

But but my point is, we identified metrics of health care in this case, claims type records, and the the well being of the organization of the employees, and therefore their financial performance or the performance of that company which they worked.

00:20:04 Tony Cassin-Scott

And there was a strong correlation between certain healthcare characteristics and performance companies, which is a fascinating.

00:20:11 Tony Cassin-Scott

Piece of work.

00:20:12 Dave Kemble

Yeah, it’s it’s interesting that you want that you hired someone outside of sector as well, because that’s something that I think practicas we’re seeing more of now and and something we we drive with.

00:20:13 Speaker 1

Remind me.

00:20:24 Dave Kemble

Our community is to to provide some answers outside of sector ’cause a lot of people look internally to try and solve the same.

00:20:33 Dave Kemble

Problem, so it’s what drove you to hire someone outside of sector.

00:20:38 Tony Cassin-Scott

Well, two things.

00:20:39 Tony Cassin-Scott

One because I myself was outside of sex.

00:20:42 Tony Cassin-Scott

Yeah, so and.

00:20:43 Tony Cassin-Scott

That kind of works, and the other thing is you just get a.

00:20:45 Tony Cassin-Scott

Fresh pair of eyes.

00:20:47 Tony Cassin-Scott

There’s you’re not tainted by what’s going on before.

00:20:50 Tony Cassin-Scott

You know that things different unit.

00:20:52 Tony Cassin-Scott

Possibly in a naive way.

00:20:53 Tony Cassin-Scott

But that’s fine, you can ask the dumb questions, which probably aren’t that dumb, and there are no, there’s no preconceptions about what you can and can’t do.

00:21:01 Tony Cassin-Scott

And I think this is probably true across all industries and almost any discipline as well.

00:21:07 Dave Kemble

Interesting, yeah, now you’ve delivered some assignments for some of the largest and best known organisations across a myriad of industries.

00:21:19 Dave Kemble

Have you noticed any similarities or indeed major differences in how they approach the use of data?

00:21:27 Dave Kemble

And also one thing I was going to ask you on this as well as if you could go back.

00:21:32 Dave Kemble

Would you do anything?

00:21:33 Dave Kemble

Differently now to to how you did it then, but I guess yeah first question.

00:21:38 Dave Kemble

Have you noticed any similarities or or major differences?

00:21:41 Tony Cassin-Scott

So the differences come from the.

00:21:43 Tony Cassin-Scott

Nature of the business.

00:21:45 Tony Cassin-Scott

So, as I mentioned before, you’ve got different levels at different levels, and it’s quite different industries at different levels of maturity that’s reflected in their use of data as well.

00:21:56 Tony Cassin-Scott

So although newspapers for example were quick to digitize, though, we’re really slow in exploiting that data.

00:22:05 Tony Cassin-Scott

It was very operational, they they didn’t use it for much insight, whereas healthcare companies for example use the data and lot for insight as to insurers, because that allows them to assess risks, set premiums, get there, improve loss ratio, newspapers didn’t or don’t have.

00:22:25 Tony Cassin-Scott

That pressure so it comes down to the pressure of the.

00:22:29 Tony Cassin-Scott

Business purpose that drives their use of data.

00:22:32 Tony Cassin-Scott

So yes, they are different.

00:22:34 Tony Cassin-Scott

Were they similar that they’re similar in that people are people?

00:22:39 Tony Cassin-Scott

People move around different.

00:22:41 Tony Cassin-Scott

Sectors they’ve got the same prejudices, the same, the same foibles, the same good points, same bad ones.

00:22:49 Tony Cassin-Scott

That doesn’t change really, so you’ll get those that see it again.

00:22:54 Tony Cassin-Scott

The domain of the IT crowd as you like or the data.

00:22:57 Tony Cassin-Scott

And you’ll get some people who say, well, actually you know this is.

00:23:01 Tony Cassin-Scott

This is all about marketing, so that those those if right stereotypes persist throughout.

00:23:08 Tony Cassin-Scott

But it’s the pressure of the purpose of the business that drives the actual use of the data in the end.

00:23:15 Dave Kemble

It’s interesting is it?

00:23:16 Dave Kemble

Yeah the I mean retail.

00:23:18 Dave Kemble

Certain retail organisations, absolutely.

00:23:20 Dave Kemble

Have absolutely nailed it with regards to today to the likes of the test goes with the Clubcard masterstroke.

00:23:24 Tony Cassin-Scott

Exactly exactly.

00:23:29 Dave Kemble

Amazon just straight away incredible with what they do with data now.

00:23:36 Dave Kemble

And in fact, we’ve we talked about this on a previous show where we talked about.

00:23:43 Dave Kemble

How how much data is actually sometimes?

00:23:47 Dave Kemble

Does it get invasive?

00:23:49 Dave Kemble

That’s the point of actually.

00:23:49 Speaker 1

Yep, Yep.

00:23:50 Dave Kemble

Do they know too much?

00:23:53 Tony Cassin-Scott

Well, it depends how it’s.

00:23:55 Tony Cassin-Scott

Used, doesn’t it?

00:23:55 Tony Cassin-Scott

At the end of the day, I mean, essentially, I think there’s an age rule.

00:23:59 Tony Cassin-Scott

Weighted view on that on that particular point you just raised there, I think.

00:24:03 Tony Cassin-Scott

If you’re kind.

00:24:03 Tony Cassin-Scott

Of the younger you are, the less.

00:24:05 Tony Cassin-Scott

Invasive it feels.

00:24:07 Dave Kemble

Well, I feel it was very innovative at the moment.

00:24:07

There’s something.

00:24:10 Tony Cassin-Scott

But yeah, I.

00:24:13 James Rowson

I’m fine with it, I’m fine with it.

00:24:13

OK.

00:24:16 Tony Cassin-Scott

The sadly the the the listeners can’t see you here, but I can confirm.

00:24:24 Tony Cassin-Scott

So so I do.

00:24:25 Tony Cassin-Scott

I do think it’s a generational thing.

00:24:27 Tony Cassin-Scott

As well and.

00:24:28 Tony Cassin-Scott

We all know.

00:24:29 Tony Cassin-Scott

There are stories out there as there are today regarding the misuse of data.

00:24:33 Tony Cassin-Scott

I do think data is a power for good though.

00:24:37 Tony Cassin-Scott

Uh, if it’s if.

00:24:38 Tony Cassin-Scott

It’s using the right way and I think the but you know, like anything is that people say, well, you know we have to cut back on the use of Facebook.

00:24:44 Tony Cassin-Scott

Or have you?

00:24:45 Tony Cassin-Scott

Well, you know there wasn’t time when telephones were dangerous because you know you get these sort of cold calls of of.

00:24:52 Tony Cassin-Scott

Strange people and what have you.

00:24:54 Tony Cassin-Scott

But you know, there are laws against that or.

00:24:56 Tony Cassin-Scott

Whatever you do.

00:24:57 Tony Cassin-Scott

Whatever technology comes about, there will be someone who who misuses it.

00:25:01 Tony Cassin-Scott

I think you just you could.

00:25:02 Tony Cassin-Scott

There’s no point outlawing it.

00:25:03 Tony Cassin-Scott

You just have to get with the program and see how best you can protect yourself and others.

00:25:07 Tony Cassin-Scott

Around you so.

00:25:08 Tony Cassin-Scott

I don’t.

00:25:09 Tony Cassin-Scott

I’m not worried about the use.

00:25:10 Tony Cassin-Scott

So the sorry, I’m right about misuse of data, but what I’m saying is I think on balance we live in a better world for it, not not because of it.

00:25:20 James Rowson

It’s a fair point.

00:25:20 James Rowson

Yeah, you mentioned it earlier.

00:25:22 James Rowson

You at the start of your previous answer, so you mentioned you know data maturity being quite an important thing to get right.

00:25:29 James Rowson

One of the services that we’ve worked with you on the practice here quite a few Times Now and our customers have also taken advantage of it as well.

00:25:37 James Rowson

It’s a yeah you offer a uh, data diagnostic.

00:25:42 James Rowson

Could you could you talk to you know what?

00:25:44 James Rowson

Is it and and you?

00:25:44 James Rowson

Know why is it so popular, certainly.

00:25:46 James Rowson

The moment.

00:25:47 Tony Cassin-Scott

So the dimension the to you, the the, the point about the value generation that that link I I did, uh, created at Bupa between sort of the healthcare record and the client performance of a company.

00:26:00 Tony Cassin-Scott

And for me, there’s an important link between the use of data and the outcomes that you can choose.

00:26:07 Tony Cassin-Scott

The company.

00:26:08 Tony Cassin-Scott

So there are lots of.

00:26:10 Tony Cassin-Scott

Data diagnostic tools out there that measure data maturity and what they mean by that.

00:26:16 Tony Cassin-Scott

Or there are several axes axes.

00:26:19 Tony Cassin-Scott

Sorry that people measure.

00:26:20 Tony Cassin-Scott

So for example, the level of data governance, data management, use of data, data culture, data analytics.

00:26:28 Tony Cassin-Scott

And so on so forth.

00:26:29 Tony Cassin-Scott

But it’s a kind of So what?

00:26:32 Tony Cassin-Scott

And that there are lots of companies out there who make a good living out of this, but for me it was.

00:26:37 Tony Cassin-Scott

I’ve I’ve been on the.

00:26:37 Tony Cassin-Scott

Receiving end of this as well, which is.

00:26:39 Tony Cassin-Scott

Why I’m doing what I’m doing now?

00:26:41 Tony Cassin-Scott

So I looked at this, I think.

00:26:42 Tony Cassin-Scott

Well, OK, so if I look at the across the industry I am in the upper quartile or bottom quarter or whatever it is so.

00:26:49 Tony Cassin-Scott

What what does that actually mean?

00:26:51 Tony Cassin-Scott

And I came to the view.

00:26:52 Tony Cassin-Scott

It means very little the most.

00:26:54 Tony Cassin-Scott

Important thing for me.

00:26:56 Tony Cassin-Scott

Is am I meeting my purpose as a business?

00:26:59 Tony Cassin-Scott

Am I delivering the value I set out to do so?

00:27:03 Tony Cassin-Scott

I looked for the link between the maturity of the data capabilities and the outcomes that you achieve with that level of maturity.

00:27:12 Tony Cassin-Scott

So you know there’s nothing new under the sun, and I kind of looked around and I curated a number of.

00:27:17 Tony Cassin-Scott

Tools and put them together.

00:27:18 Tony Cassin-Scott

To create a, uh, data diagnostic tool so it’s it’s in two works in two parts.

00:27:23 Tony Cassin-Scott

The first part is the baseline where you are, which is the kind of the.

00:27:27 Tony Cassin-Scott

So what comment I made earlier?

00:27:29 Tony Cassin-Scott

But you use that for the second part?

00:27:32 Tony Cassin-Scott

The second part is a is an education piece.

00:27:35 Tony Cassin-Scott

Of the both.

00:27:36 Tony Cassin-Scott

The board and the senior executives and the company.

00:27:38 Tony Cassin-Scott

I’m taking through this.

00:27:39 Tony Cassin-Scott

This is what maturity looks like, and this is the sort of things.

00:27:42 Tony Cassin-Scott

That can deliver.

00:27:43 Tony Cassin-Scott

So I take them through that sort of a short tutorial and say right thinking about your business objectives.

00:27:49 Tony Cassin-Scott

Whatever they are and it doesn’t matter.

00:27:51 Tony Cassin-Scott

Whatever your vision injectors are.

00:27:53 Tony Cassin-Scott

What level of data?

00:27:54 Tony Cassin-Scott

Maturity and those various categories I mentioned.

00:27:57 Tony Cassin-Scott

Do you think you need to be in order to achieve those goals?

00:28:01 Tony Cassin-Scott

Nor there?

00:28:01 Tony Cassin-Scott

Suddenly you’ve created a link straight through Link line of sight link between your capabilities and producing value for the company.

00:28:09 Tony Cassin-Scott

So I then run a second service.

00:28:12 Tony Cassin-Scott

Where do you think you need to be?

00:28:13 Tony Cassin-Scott

And then I perform a gap.

00:28:14 Tony Cassin-Scott

Analysis and say right.

00:28:15 Tony Cassin-Scott

You think you’re here.

00:28:17 Tony Cassin-Scott

You say you need to be at a high level or the same level.

00:28:20 Tony Cassin-Scott

UM, let’s go into so we know there’s a gap there now.

00:28:24 Tony Cassin-Scott

So how do we address that gap?

00:28:26 Tony Cassin-Scott

And that’s where the second part of the consultancy comes in, which is saying OK here.

00:28:30 Tony Cassin-Scott

Here’s the real life problems that we can that we can deal with.

00:28:33 Tony Cassin-Scott

How can we raise your maturity to allow you to be a more performant business?

00:28:37 Tony Cassin-Scott

Than you are today through the lens of data and most of the journey is taking people from a.

00:28:45 Tony Cassin-Scott

A decision support side, so data fuel decision support through to a fully automated decision making process, which is like you have full use of cognitive science or AI, but the the the journey is really important for them because it’s it’s as I discovered, the more I do with these I’ve done a handful or quiet.

00:29:05 Tony Cassin-Scott

Council now there’s a education piece in this of the board, so all of a sudden the boards more involved in what they can do with data and all of a sudden it pushes up the agenda and we’re now seeing obviously CDO’s being appointed to the board, and this is.

00:29:18 Tony Cassin-Scott

A direct result of that.

00:29:21 Dave Kemble

Yeah, it’s it’s interesting.

00:29:22 Dave Kemble

I know when.

00:29:23 Dave Kemble

We’ve had a had a a look at it and you did it.

00:29:27 Dave Kemble

Data diagnostic with us and it was it was.

00:29:29 Dave Kemble

It was, it was fascinating.

00:29:31 Dave Kemble

The report that that came back, and he presented to us because it’s if you don’t mind me saying, it’s always that one of those personality traits where you think I’m asked.

00:29:40 Dave Kemble

I’m answering the same thing again and again and again, and then you give the report.

00:29:44 Dave Kemble

You go.

00:29:45 Dave Kemble

Well, that’s exactly how that’s exactly it.

00:29:47 Dave Kemble

You’ve nailed it.

00:29:48 Dave Kemble

That’s me.

00:29:51 Dave Kemble

Right, yeah?

00:29:51 Tony Cassin-Scott

And and that’s and that’s.

00:29:53 Tony Cassin-Scott

Happened time and again.

00:29:54 Tony Cassin-Scott

Yeah, I mean there is a there is a strong link between those sort of.

00:29:57 Tony Cassin-Scott

Sort of Belden type tests, and what?

00:29:59 Tony Cassin-Scott

Have you where will?

00:30:00 Tony Cassin-Scott

You do as personality traits and if you like that’s a very good analogy.

00:30:04 Tony Cassin-Scott

It’s like your data personality as a company.

00:30:07 Tony Cassin-Scott

What those metrics look like and and that’s actually, that’s a good I’ll use that.

00:30:10 Tony Cassin-Scott

Thank you that that’s that’s.

00:30:11 Dave Kemble

Your work.

00:30:13 Tony Cassin-Scott

Value every every meeting.

00:30:15 Tony Cassin-Scott

So now I I think I.

00:30:16 Tony Cassin-Scott

Think that that’s true, but the the point of knowing where you are is it allows you to figure.

00:30:21 Tony Cassin-Scott

Out where you’re going to go and how you’re going to get.

00:30:24 Tony Cassin-Scott

And that’s what I have found was missing when I was on the other side of this.

00:30:28 Tony Cassin-Scott

It was like it tells me where I it told me where I was.

00:30:30 Tony Cassin-Scott

It gave me no insight on where where I was going and it didn’t link it to value and for me that’s the that’s the important connection I’ve I’ve put together with us all.

00:30:40 James Rowson

So what at what stage during a transformation program, you know whether it be digital or data or or business.

00:30:47 James Rowson

You know, regardless of what the actual specificity is, when should a company, when would a company get most value out of the data diagnostic?

00:30:55 James Rowson

Do you think what stage in their journey?

00:30:55 Tony Cassin-Scott

How did you do at the beginning?

00:30:59 Tony Cassin-Scott

The the at the beginning because it’s it’s like any any good plan you know any any good execution has good plan and a good plan has some good insight behind it so you know what you’re doing.

00:31:11 Tony Cassin-Scott

I wouldn’t do it at the end, it’s.

00:31:12 Tony Cassin-Scott

A bit too late so be.

00:31:14 Tony Cassin-Scott

What this does, it challenges the business on there.

00:31:18 Tony Cassin-Scott

Objectives as well.

00:31:20 Tony Cassin-Scott

So I’ll I’ll give you an example.

00:31:23 Tony Cassin-Scott

Uhm, Novo Nordisk is a well known well well known to some Danish.

00:31:31 Tony Cassin-Scott

A company that produces this is a pharmaceutical company.

00:31:32 Dave Kemble

Pharmacies, yeah?

00:31:35 Tony Cassin-Scott

Thank you very much, I’m.

00:31:36 Tony Cassin-Scott

Losing my words here.

00:31:38 Tony Cassin-Scott

They it’s, they’re the largest.

00:31:40 Tony Cassin-Scott

Producer of insulin in the.

00:31:42 Tony Cassin-Scott

And what they they use data in their KPIs so their their year end accounts have two in effect two sections.

00:31:51 Tony Cassin-Scott

One is their financial year end accounts which everyone obliged to do, but they have self elected to produce the same level of quality and rigor or their KP’s which measure.

00:32:01 Tony Cassin-Scott

The number of late.

00:32:01 Tony Cassin-Scott

Lives saved and positively impacted.

00:32:05 Tony Cassin-Scott

So what they’ve done with their purpose is they’ve turned that into some key metrics, and they’ve thought very carefully about their business outcomes, their business purpose in order to deliver that value.

00:32:18 Tony Cassin-Scott

So it’s more than just shareholder value.

00:32:20 Tony Cassin-Scott

It’s actually sort of public good.

00:32:23 Tony Cassin-Scott

So what?

00:32:24 Tony Cassin-Scott

The data?

00:32:25 Tony Cassin-Scott

Diagnostic tool does at the same time is to challenge the board to say, are these the right business objectives?

00:32:32 Tony Cassin-Scott

Now what I’ve experienced.

00:32:34 Tony Cassin-Scott

Is that some of them said actually, you know that person object we get you.

00:32:37 Tony Cassin-Scott

It’s not that important, is it?

00:32:39 Tony Cassin-Scott

We shouldn’t really worry about that, but we haven’t included this or we haven’t thought about that, so it gets them to rethink what’s important when you apply that data lens.

00:32:48 Tony Cassin-Scott

As I said, I try and raise the level above.

00:32:50 Tony Cassin-Scott

You know what’s your data management skills?

00:32:52 Tony Cassin-Scott

Right, which is vitally important, by the way, but it’s a means to an end.

00:32:56 Tony Cassin-Scott

It’s the end point which I want them to focus on, and they would say right and also get that end state.

00:33:01 Tony Cassin-Scott

This is what you need.

00:33:01 Tony Cassin-Scott

To do on these sort of more detail level.

00:33:04 Dave Kemble

And to to get the the most benefit out of the the diagnostic.

00:33:09 Dave Kemble

And before I continue I should say I’m amazed James didn’t use his sharpening the axe analogy when you said use it at the beginning.

00:33:15 James Rowson

I was thinking about it.

00:33:17 James Rowson

I’ve already used it on this series twice.

00:33:19 James Rowson

I can’t use.

00:33:19 James Rowson

It a third time.

00:33:20 Dave Kemble

I thought so just to just say, you know, Tony.

00:33:23 Dave Kemble

If if James had an hour to chop down a tree, he’d spend the 1st 50 minutes sharpening the axe.

00:33:28 Dave Kemble

I just yeah.

00:33:30 Dave Kemble

I don’t know how many trees chopped.

00:33:30 Speaker 1

I get it.

00:33:31 Dave Kemble

Down, but uh.

00:33:33 James Rowson

You should.

00:33:34 James Rowson

You should see my my forest village.

00:33:36 Tony Cassin-Scott

Yeah, yeah, it’s it’s it’s it’s.

00:33:40 Dave Kemble

It’s not forest anymore.

00:33:41 Dave Kemble

It’s it’s just a single tree.

00:33:44 Dave Kemble

So to to get the.

00:33:46 Dave Kemble

Best out of the diagnostic.

00:33:48 Dave Kemble

Do you?

00:33:50 Dave Kemble

Do you use it across the whole organization or can you do it on?

00:33:54 Dave Kemble

Departments as an individual.

00:33:57 Dave Kemble

What’s what’s the best approach?

00:33:59 Tony Cassin-Scott

So the the more voices you get, the better the picture.

00:34:04 Tony Cassin-Scott

So my recommendation is to involve as many people from across the organization as they possibly.

00:34:11 Tony Cassin-Scott

And the reason for that, and so you get a lot of bias.

00:34:15 Tony Cassin-Scott

If you were to have, say, just business people or just the board or just data people.

00:34:19 Tony Cassin-Scott

So when I when I ask them to do is have as many people as we can encourage to to fit in the surveys, and then I normally break those down to generally 3.

00:34:31 Tony Cassin-Scott

Groups, but it’s.

00:34:32 Tony Cassin-Scott

All customizable according to what the customer wants.

00:34:34 Tony Cassin-Scott

The three groups I normally go for it.

00:34:38 Tony Cassin-Scott

People data people ’cause there are.

00:34:40 Tony Cassin-Scott

They do have very different views of data and then business users and within business users you can tell looking at the data what sort of business user they are now that comes down to very specifically around the sort of company that you’re dealing with.

00:34:53 Tony Cassin-Scott

The insurance company or retail company.

00:34:56 Tony Cassin-Scott

But the the more granular I can get.

00:34:59 Tony Cassin-Scott

The more insight we can retrieve from that information.

00:35:03 Dave Kemble

Fantastic and in your thoughts. You mentioned this earlier. You’re seeing CTO’s now finally getting a seat at the top table rather than reporting.

00:35:11 Dave Kemble

Yeah, it reporting into the CFO or directly into the CEO.

00:35:15 Dave Kemble

Do you see that being the future is is the future now that companies have embraced technology technology as a whole and that?

00:35:23 Dave Kemble

They’re going to use it as a business enabler.

00:35:26 Tony Cassin-Scott

I think it is happening.

00:35:28 Tony Cassin-Scott

I think it.

00:35:29 Tony Cassin-Scott

Is happening slowly.

00:35:31 Tony Cassin-Scott

And some industries will be slower than others.

00:35:35 Tony Cassin-Scott

I mean, there used to be a time when accountants became CEO’s as well and you know can see wasn’t seems most exciting thing, but it was.

00:35:44 Tony Cassin-Scott

It was seen to be something which is incredibly important to a company which obviously the finances are.

00:35:49 Tony Cassin-Scott

I think I can see those types of people being superseded by Chief data officer types or chief data and digitalization.

00:35:56 Tony Cassin-Scott

Types where all this other factors now?

00:36:00 Tony Cassin-Scott

It’s not more important than just counting.

00:36:02 Tony Cassin-Scott

You know how many beans you’ve made.

00:36:04 Tony Cassin-Scott

I’m not being derogatory against accountants circles, but what I’m saying is it’s it’s.

00:36:08 Tony Cassin-Scott

It’s something which I think is is closer to the business than just the numbers.

00:36:13 Tony Cassin-Scott

It’s the it’s the whole experience of both the the consumer and also the employees working there.

00:36:20 Dave Kemble

But yeah, it allows you to have access and and understand your internal employee satisfaction and and how they’re working for you as an organization.

00:36:29 Dave Kemble

But also what you need to do as a business to ensure that your Max.

00:36:32 Dave Kemble

Sizing your your services to your consumer base.

00:36:37 Tony Cassin-Scott

Exactly, it’s like a sort of data tech savvy CEO type type role where I can see that sort of in time happening, and obviously that’s what how the tech companies are operating today.

00:36:49 James Rowson

Long may it continue.

00:36:52 James Rowson

Tony, look, we really appreciate you coming on the podcast today.

00:36:56 James Rowson

Some fascinating stuff there.

00:36:57 James Rowson

If anybody would like to reach out to Tony directly to talk to him about his experience or his data diagnostic in more detail, you can find him on LinkedIn at Tony Kassin Scott.

00:37:09 Dave Kemble

And you can reach me at dave.campbell@practicas.com.

00:37:13 James Rowson

And you can reach me at james.rosen@practicus.com thanks so.

00:37:18 James Rowson

Much Tony, we’re the.

00:37:19 James Rowson

Best Tony

00:37:19 Tony Cassin-Scott

Thanks, thank you guys.

00:37:21 Dave Kemble

That’s a wrap.